Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Film Crew Ahead podcast. I'm your host Noëllie Sartorio. I'm content creator at Misheye and also drone pilot. And today, um, we are reversing roles and I'm interviewing you, Raymond. How are you? 

I'm good, thank you.  Um, Raymond, what's your role at Misheye?  

Uh, well officially I am, uh, the senior videographer, photographer, and chief drone pilot.

And what's Anakin's role at Misheye? 

Uh. 

Dog. 

Yes.  Officially, dog. 

Anakin Spaniel Walker. Come here. Can you say hello? Here. Jump. Up, up.  

Hello, Anakin. 

You've got to face the camera.  You've got to face the camera. We really need him at Misheye.  Cool. So now that we have introduced everybody in the room, um, let's just get into the episode straight away.

Uh, this is another episode about drones. And today we're going to talk a little bit more about the, how to. drone.  So I have a couple of questions for you. Um, just to, uh, get started very easily. Um, the first question is, is very straightforward. Raymond, how do you, or how does anyone become a drone pilot?

Find someone that you know. That, uh, that is a drone pilot and, uh,  and, uh, yeah, see if you can, if they can teach you some stuff and help you get started. Um, if you don't know anyone that flies drones, I guess, uh, you could, you could find just a really cheap toy kind of drone, like one of the little ones you can get.

Um, and they are quite difficult to fly, the little ones, but  if you can master one of those little ones, and this is what you taught me, um, if you can master one of those little ones. Uh, uh, then chances are the, the, the, um, the bigger drones are going to be incredibly easy by comparison. 

Yeah. How did you start yourself? 

I  was going to a, doing a trip to New Zealand, and I just really wanted to, um, get myself a drone. So I could, cause I knew the scenery over there was pretty epic. And, uh, yeah, so I just like, just decided I got myself a, the Mavic Air 2. I think it was? No, I think it was the original Mavic Air. Um, and, yeah.

Little did I know that, um,  once I got over there, it was like, so many places that you couldn't fly, and, uh, lots of, uh, restrictions, and in some places you need like a permit, and anyway, that was all part of the learning process.  But, uh, I did fly it a few times over there and it was, it was a lot of fun.

Yeah, I bet it was. It's one of my dreams to go there. Um, you raised an interesting point about, you know, restrictions and things like that, because it's pretty common knowledge these days that you cannot just pop a drone up and go wherever you want. Um, so that was leading to my next question. More specifically, how do you become a professional drone pilot?

Uh, 

you have to do, do training, um, go, uh, for your remote pilot's license. Um, and your remote operator certificate takes a lot of study, a lot of, uh, you have to remember a lot of things. It's, it's basically like just basic aviation, um, that you have to, to learn. Like the, uh, yeah. So, yeah. 

I remember myself when, when I studied for, uh, this.

This, um, license. I was surprised that we needed to learn how even, um,  a propeller works, you know, and, uh, and 

aerodynamics  

and things like that. So on top of, uh, our, our RPL, um, we had to come up with as a business, um, with the remote operator certificate and, um, and with that comes the designation of someone called.

Uh, chief pilot within the business. And that's you. Can you explain a little bit, what's the difference between a chief pilot and a not chief pilot? 

Mostly comes down to the responsibility that includes things like, um, training, uh, of other remote pilots within the team, drone maintenance, um, safety, um, elements that, uh, need to be, uh, approved by CASA, um, And I also have the ability to delegate, um, certain tasks to the drone team.

Um, when required, if and when required, uh, that sort of thing. Yeah. 

Well, there's another question that, um, comes right after what you said, after having chief pilot who has responsibility, uh, legally, um, there's all this legality around flying drones, especially in Australia that is supervised by CASA. So the most common rule is, um, are called the standard operations conditions rules.

Can you let us know a little bit what's, what's that about? 

So  you cannot fly over a populous area, um, maintaining 30 meters from people, uh, in like a cylindrical fashion. So you, you have to, you can't obviously fly over, you have to stay, maintain 30 meters from people at all times. Any emergency services, uh, like Uh, say, um, hospital,  um, helicopters, for example.

Um, if you see anything like that, like, oh, uh, you have to land straight away. Yeah. So you have to stay,  um, three nautical miles main, uh, away from, um, uh, aerodromes. Three, three nautical miles or 5. 5 kilometers. 

Yeah, I get confused with that as 

well. Can't fly over Busy roads. Busy roads. Yeah, 

yeah. And not, and not fly.

Technically, uh, you remember now we can do it. We can fly at night. So it doesn't, um, ring a bell, but technically, uh, normal operations are during daylight. 

Yeah. Daylight hours. And 

visual line of sight, which we forgot as well. Cause we can. Do something different now. Yes. So that's a lot of legality and, um, around flying drones.

And that's why we, we have chief pilots, like I said, and that's why we often create procedures to be able to fly, um, with exceptions to these rules. Cause you can, you can do it. Oh, there was also a staying under 120 meters seating. 

Oh, absolutely. Yes. 

So, but that changes depending on how close you get to the airport as well.

Exactly. So. This leads to my question around safety. Um,  I don't think our audience probably is necessarily coming from construction, which is at the moment our main industry, um, we work in.  Can you explain what, roughly, what is the main document that we usually prepare  before Doing a drone, uh, assignment.

Yeah. So we do a, um, uh, we prepare a swims document, which is a safe work method statement. Mm-Hmm.  , um, it details all of the details. Uh, it details everything about the job. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, where it is, what the weather might be, the risks that might be associated, uh, you know, whether it's NN nearby to roads or pedestrian walkways, things like that.

So we assess. all of the risks. Uh, we also generate a, um, flight path, uh, flight zones, uh, which includes, uh, takeoff and landing spots, um, emergency landing zone, uh, just in case. Um, it also highlights areas that we absolutely do not fly. Yeah. Um, so it's nice and clear, um, not just for us, but for the client as well.

So they know exactly what to expect and then just some other supplementary information, just to, you know, uh, what drone we'll be using or, um, and any, any,  information about those drones. So for instance, if it is like a really windy day, um, we've also got details on there about, you know, maximum wind speed.

Yeah. For any, any particular drone. Yeah. 

Which is something we know, but we also, I guess we put it in there because it's, um, it's a transparent way to show that. Um, people in charge of safety on the side of the client that they can also get educated with our documentation, you know, so I think it's actually a good thing that we have that in our SWIMS.

We also have emergency procedures, which are directly taken from our whole, um, manual of operation. Cause when you became, um, a chief pilot, we had to come up with this whole in the background of the business documentation. And it's called, uh, it's called a manual of operation and a library of procedures.

Yes. Correct. Yeah. 

Um, and all of this, because we were talking about night work and, um, also not being always line of sight with the drone, these kinds of procedures and, um, operations had to be rewritten with our own protocols at Misheye to be allowed to do these things, these exceptions. So can you tell us Maybe not exactly all the secrets about it, but from memory, for example, uh, flying at night, that's not easy.

It looks like it's easy, but it's not. So can you tell a little bit the challenges as a drone pilot, um, that we encounter at night and that would therefore be covered in our safety protocols? Yeah. 

So, um, Uh, certain things, uh, like it's important that we go and do a recce or reconnaissance of the location during daylight hours to assess for things like trees or power lines.

Uh, power lines and, and wires and that, that's, that's probably the, Biggest one, just because at night, it's incredibly hard to see almost impossible, especially on a, you know, dark night sky. So, um, we assess for things like that.  Also, uh, we always fly with, uh, with the assistance of a spotter, um, so they can help us look out for, um, you know, Um, things like birds or even bats, because there's certain times of the year in Melbourne, there's plenty of bats flying around, um, and the observer or spotter, um, is also, uh, trained specifically for night operations.

And yourself, I suppose you had to learn to fly at night, which is a bit different than during the day. 

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. There's other, there's other great little features about, um, the drone that, um, help assist with that as well, such as, um, you can set, uh, There's a light on the bottom of the drone that you can set to automatically turn on and off as you take off or land, which is really helpful.

Um, but also you have the ability to turn the lights, uh, the, the, um, the, the front and the rear of the drone have red and green lights. So, uh, it also helps with orientation and, uh, And also just to literally see where you are in the sky. 

Yeah, it's a good point. You make bad orientation because during our RPL training course, um, I don't know about you, but my practical tests, the, the, yes,  the person training me put the drone, change the orientation, and you're not allowed to look at the screen and you have to bring back the drone.

So when you said the observer is trained, for example, it's. It sounds simple, but they have to know that, is they have to know which lights are at front, because they're different colors, and which ones are at the back, and be able to tell you in case you lose vision or you lose GPS assistance. 

Yes. 

Because all these things can happen.

And it's funny because I was discussing with Christian recently, um, Uh, so our  CEO, what do we call Christian? Yes. Managing director. Managing director. Um, about how, cause I went back. Owner and managing director. 

Owner and managing director. Um, I went back to shooting on ground, so standard videos, and I was like, this is  It's still challenging for other reasons, but the, it's relaxing because you don't have to think about all these things.

What happens if, if the drone lose the signal or what happens if there's a bat, you know, it really don't care about this. So I feel like it really takes  something like a different, Type of personally trait to decide to fly drones for video  

Yeah, you you you almost have to detach yourself from where you're standing you have to  you have to almost Take a piece of your brain and put it in the drone and think of it from that point of view and  but also Snap back to where you are In a flash so you that you can bring fly the drone back Yeah in an emergency situation and you have to know where you are and where the drone is Simultaneously, so it's it's quite a skill And  it's a lot of fun.

It is the same time. 

It's a skill because you have to think of things technical things while trying to think of the creative side of it, which is actually performing. 

Yeah,  absolutely. Yeah. You. Yeah, really. It's a real balancing act because obviously you want to, you're trying to  stay safe and make sure you're not flying over a pedestrian pathway or a road.

But at the same time you have to like, okay, so I'm restricted to this kind of a flight path. So how can I make the most of the imagery that I'm capturing? So  yeah, a lot of factors. 

It is. Um, Speaking of all the things we have to think about, one of the most recent, uh, I would say achievement we've done with Misheye was to be able to fly closer to airports.

So for this, we have two methods. Either, um, we use a different drone or, uh, and that's what I was interested in talking about with you, Wii. right procedures. 

Maybe let's, let's go through it one quote,  one question at a time. What's the first one? 

Let's just say when you fly within those 5. 5 kilometers distance from an airport, what are all the things you have to think about? 

Maybe it's just best if I explain my process when I actually get to a location like this, where it's within  the three nautical miles. So, uh, I, I, I, Assess the swims, um, um, and determine like what my height restriction might be, because, um,  it can be, you know, 90 meters or less, depending on how close you are.

And if it's a, if it's a, an active airport with, with, um, uh, with a control tower, that's in operation, then, uh, we also have to contact the tower and let them know of our operations. Yeah. Um, yeah.  But obviously this is only if we've applied and received a permit.  So, uh, they'll ask for a particular, um, uh, number or code, whatever, um, that, uh, we let them know and, and they'll be able to check their records and, and check indeed that we have a permit to fly.

Um, so that also, and then when we finished our operations, we also let them know we're done as well. 

Yeah. Yeah. And to help you in that task, just like at night. You also have a train spotter, um, for that operation. Yes, absolutely. 

And they can help you monitor the airband, uh, which I always really like. Um, yeah, well that, yeah.

Well that's, uh, another important point is that we have a, um,  a, an airband radio. So we're able to monitor, uh, the activity.  In the area and, uh, depending on, and different, different aerodromes have different, uh, radio frequencies,  um, that we have to  be aware of. 

Yeah. I remember last time we did a job together, uh, close to the airport, I was your spotter and I just found it really cool that we could hear the pilot saying Alpha Tango, blah, blah, blah. 

I was like, Oh, I feel important even though you're not communicating with these people, but. You know, it reminds you, you're a pilot a bit. 

And, and that was part of the training as well.  

Yeah. 

To get all of our certificates. Uh, we, we have to understand, um, how to communicate using those radios. And, um, it, it can get quite technical.

Yeah. And even, even down to, uh, how you pronounce certain, uh, words or numbers. 

Yeah. I remember niner for nine. Yeah. Yeah. And you don't, you don't say five, you say fife. 

Ah yeah, with a, with an F. I can't say that in myself, five. So that's all about safety. I wanted to make this, you know, big part of the first of the, of this third episode about, um, all the things that we have to think about, cause we love flying, but sometimes we say 90 percent of our, uh, yeah, 90 percent of our job is flying.

paper and procedures and then 10 percent of it is actually flying.  Um, now speaking of the actual flying, um, how did the, um, the evolution of drone technology support the evolution of Mishaya drones department? So I'm thinking about the avatar that you could talk about and also maybe the Mavic Mini that we just mentioned sort of hinted at. 

Yeah. So, um, uh, DJI really Provide a wide range of drones for different applications. And, uh, we, we started out with, um,  sort of, I guess it's like a mid sized drone, mid to mid to small, because, uh, we like to stay light and mobile with, with the way we like to shoot. Um,  But at the same time, we wanted to strike that balance of like, um, keeping compact, but also, uh, drones with, uh, really great capabilities and image quality.

Um, but as we progressed, we found that we were flying in all kinds of different environments. Um, and so we needed to, We need a different tool for different jobs.  So for example, we've, um, been utilizing the, uh, Avada, which is like a FPV drone or first person view drone. Um, it's, uh, for anyone that doesn't know, it's, um, using. 

Instead of, um, uh, using a remote control with a screen, you instead have a set of goggles that, uh, kind of like a VR style of goggles that you can, um, see the point of view of the drone,  hence FPV. Um, and that gave us a lot more, uh, a  lot more capability in terms of flying indoors and in tight spaces and really creating dynamic imagery.

Um, yeah.  And then, as well as that, we were getting a, we found we were having lots of requests for flying near airports. Yep. And there is, uh, a restriction, uh, so anything over 250 grams, you require a permit. But, DJI came out with, uh, a drone that is 249 grams. 

Yes. 

Exactly for that reason, which means we can, uh, book jobs for clients on much, uh, Uh, shorter, um,  uh, timelines or last minute requests.

Um,  uh, so that's, yeah, that's been really handy. I mean, but just like any piece of gear, like camera gear or drone gear, there's always pros and cons. So that's something that we have to take into account  with things like that. 

Yep. Yeah. And, um, again, because we're not, um, asking for specific permits on this location, we are still bound to the standard rules, which is, you know.

Yeah, it doesn't, just because it's that certain size drone, it doesn't exclude us from standard, um, drone rules.  

Yeah, it's just that I, I assume that's assumption. It's not fact that a 249 grams drone is not a threat to a Boeing.  So even I'm thinking the flyaway wouldn't be, cause that's what I think CASA is worried about.

Those sensitive zones is having a flyaway, which is  When a drone is out of control and goes in the air and you cannot retrieve it and it's technically unmanned, uncontrolled, um, aircraft, which is very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. 

Yeah. And I think, yeah, I,  I've, I've never heard a story of, um, a drone getting sucked into the engine of a, uh, No. 

Of a jet like that, but, um, I think even if it was like a small drone, like a 249 gram one, and for whatever crazy reason it did fly away and it was, you were able, weren't able to retrieve it, then I think it could still do some considerable damage. So you just always have to assume, um, um. That sort of thing, like, uh, just in terms of staying safe and making sure that you have backup plans and safety procedures. 

Yeah. Speaking of a drone being a sort of threat at all time, if we wanted to, um, this made me think of, you know, um, in our imagery industry, sometimes it looks like some people really go for the visual aspect of, of a shot. 

Yeah. 

Um,  while disregarding some clear safety rules. I was wondering how you, what's your opinion on this? 

Um,  it can be frustrating,  um, because, uh, they're getting some really amazing shots.  We wish we could get,  but there's absolutely no way we would break the rules like that. And um, uh, but there's ways of getting the shots and getting creative, amazing shots without, um, breaking the rules and, and doing it in a really safe way.

So, um, yeah.  You know, a perfect example is, uh,  uh, sometimes we get requests, oh, we want it like a top down shot of maybe a railway line or a train station or something.  And it's like, oh, we, we, we can't do that because we can't, in this scenario, we can't fly over the rail corridor. We can get permits depending on, uh, certain situations, but won't go into that.

But basically, um, if we weren't able in this scenario to fly directly over the railway line, we can just be. Off to the side, still be up quite high and at 120 meters looking directly down, it still gives the impression that you're over the top without it actually being. So,  uh, yeah, there's ways around, uh, creative ways that, um, we utilize to, to bring out the best in any project in a safe way.

I guess with drones, um, like what you just mentioned, you have to find ways around to still get the desired shot. It's a lot of problem solving all the time.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, yep. Always problem solving, I think. Not just with drone shoots, but any shoot, really. Um, I mean, that's, uh,  that's why we keep getting hired, because we know how to problem solve on the fly.

That's true on the fly.  I thought you did it on purpose.  Um, 

yes. Pun completely.  Good. 

Uh, speaking of problem solving, I have good news. Um, this morning I received an email from CASA on something, uh, we have been working a bit on this year, which is trying to fly closer to people, 

uh, closer than 30 meters, I think sometimes, uh, we were flying within 15 meters of the Um, indoors, we were also having some exceptions, but, um, you know, we've been with, 

because we've, I shouldn't mention that, that, um, yes, we can fly  up to, um, uh,  it's not always 30, it's not restricted to 30 meters.

It can be 15 meters with consent from whoever is gonna be Yes. Part of the. 

Yeah. Uh, well, there's good news now. Um, because we, we work closely with Casa. I feel like we've, we're emailing them every week, to be honest, they know us now. Um, but yeah, they sent an email about flying closer to people and how the, there seems to be better ways now to do it.

Cause that's what we were a bit frustrated for speaking of frustration earlier. Um, we, we would see great shot happening and we're like, we also want to do that. We also want to not interrupt our, our Course, uh, flight course, because there's someone crossing the flight path. So good news. They have, um, it's not amending rules.

It's creating subcategories and, uh, circumstances in which we can fly even above some people now. So yes, so we're going to have, Yeah. Um, cause that was leading to my final question. Um, and I saw this news this morning. I'm like, perfect. I can insert it before the final question of this episode. But before we get into that one, uh, first, thank you for your time today.

Yeah. It was nice. Um, I'm really glad this podcast is happening. I feel like. It's, uh, it's also good, um, brainstorming, um, that we would naturally do. So, uh, I'm glad to spend always like 45 minutes with you on podcast. It's great. And thanks for everybody watching and listening. Um, if you liked this episode, you can find us first on all podcast platforms, and also we're on Spotify videos.

And if you like it, give us some nice, um,  Thumbs up. I don't know if it's thumbs up on Spotify, but good ratings and, uh, and feel free to share it with anyone who would be interested in this topic.  So yeah, final question, the future, the near future of Misha.  So I was saying, I'm happy about Casa new rule with people.

Cause that, that would have been my answer. What do I want to see with Misha drone department was I would really like us to unlock more, um, abilities and possibilities. So that. Answers my side of it. What would you like to see happen? Um, before the end of the year for Misheye drone department could be anything doesn't have to be  safety related and you can take your time to think about it. 

So my wish is that it just makes me think I'm like, what about safety redundancies?  So  I think I have heard of some drones. Uh, they have Uh, the ability to float. Um, so there'd be like attachments that go on the drone. So, uh, if you're doing a shoot out in the ocean, for example, um, you can land and take off from the water.

Yeah. Um, but it always, it, but there's been other scenarios where, oh, we just want to,  we, uh, the ability to be able to fly closer to people as well.  Um,  and  why not be able, surely there's attachments, I haven't looked into it yet, but attachments, whoops, sorry, I bumped the mic, um, that go around the props of the drone, like a kind of a cage so that if it does bump into a wall or even a person, um, the propellers are not going to cut, cut them.

So, um,  there's that, I, like I understand that probably would affect aerodynamics, but, um.  But drones are getting pretty powerful these days, and the battery life is lasting so much longer, so  If it meant that I was to sacrifice a bit of battery life, uh, to be able to have an extra attachment, um, and have, and tune the drone in a way that gives it a bit more power to compensate, then it's, I think it's worth it.

Or even, I even thought, wouldn't it be great if there was, based on the GPS of the drone, it was able to determine if you were over the water or maybe some sort of water sensor on the drone, so that it wouldn't hit the water.  It would have airbags. 

We thought about it in the drone community for a long time.

Yeah, we were joking about it. Surely someone out there has done it.  If you are a drone pilot and you have done this,  please get in touch. I really want to hear about how you achieve that and if it works well. 

Yes.  

I'd love to interview you about it as well.  

That would be cool. This also made me think of a wish I have for next springtime with the birds, because we, most people are always, Um, surprise that birds are aggressive towards drones, even more in springtime.

I really hope that your solution of orange, um,  hi vis tape, um, on our drones will definitely, um,  not repel, but like,  deter, 

deter,  yeah, well, uh,  uh, credit, um, to the guy that came up with the idea, um.  I can't think of his name off the top of my head. Maybe this is another thing we put a bit of text  because he deserves a shout out because he did a lot of experimentation and tried different colored tapes of all kinds.

Um, he actually found that, um, uh, red tape worked best for him, but Uh, because we fly a lot, uh, in, uh, around rail corridors, uh, we, we can't use red in the corridors. So, and amongst other colors. So the next closest thing was, um, orange, which is very common and it's also high vis, which means, um, it makes it a bit easier, easier for us to spot in the air.

Um. Um, But so far, it seems like, because I have had birds recently circle the drone, but  I get the impression that they're not getting as close as they normally would, but the real test is going to be springtime when we get to that. So,  yeah. 

Which is the time of the year I dread.  But, you know, again, problem solving, um, you run to it. 

Well, and experience in terms of birds as well. Um, I think it's a really important thing to mention Anyone out there that's a drone pilot and, and doesn't know how to deal with birds because as soon as you see, um, some birds going for the drone,  you, your immediate reaction is to fly away as quickly as possible, or fly up because it's difficult for birds to fly up, but, um, They can obviously swoop down quite easily.

Yeah. So, but, but when you're at 120 meters and you can't fly any higher, what do you do then? Yeah.  But I've found, and it, it varies depending on the bird, but for example, something like crows,  um, if I can see the crows coming, all I have to do is just calmly just move out of the way. Yeah. And slowly. Um,  and. 

And if I keep doing that, and I just keep dodging and weaving, eventually they realize that I'm not a threat, because if I start flying erratically, that's when they get more aggressive.  So eventually you just move out of their way a couple of times, and eventually they just fly away, because they're like, oh, it's fine, it's not a big deal.

I feel like We could do a whole episode about birds. Yeah  But uh, yeah, um that yeah, that's a that's a wonderful way to also End this episode because it opens to all the things we can still discuss in the following ones and we're going to do lots of  Drones episodes this year. So  thanks again for listening. 

Did you have a good time raymond? I did.  And so I guess i'll see you again in the next one. 

Yeah, great. 

All right. See you everybody. Bye